On Her Flying Trapeze

Wednesday, December 07, 2005

Put Down Your Torches and Pitchforks! I Surrender!

I may be a festering, Satan-worshipping vegetable, lurking under the bedsheets of Christian Beauty, but at least I’m still funny. So says Marla of “Always Thirsty.” I think this is my first official “review.” How nice.

A couple of weeks ago I was nominated for a Blogs of Beauty Award. I still do not know who nominated me. No one will admit it. I was touched and pleased and surprised that someone or someones could see through my sometimes sarcastic humor a deep and abiding love for the Savior and nominate me alongside these other excellent women.

The days went by and I tried to say I didn’t care who won. It was so cool just to be nominated. But I can’t say I wasn’t beaming when Sallie (the creator of the awards) announced on her blog yesterday that I had won. It is SO nice to be recognized for my writing and I felt honored that it was an award given by other Christians.

I do not consider this a “Mormon blog” but rather a personal blog by someone who happens to be Mormon. I want this blog to be a support group for moms, a place where people of any religion can come, laugh a little, share in the excitement, fun and heartache of parenthood and feel a touch of grace and tolerance.

You can rip on my writing all you want and it won’t make me cry. But there are two things I must ask you never to do, post angry hateful things about my most sacred core beliefs or say horrible nasty things about my family.

Number one has already been accomplished and I’m still bawling. If someone writes a blog entry about how stupid or ugly my kids are tonight, it may just send me over the edge (and we don't like the edge. The edge involves large amounts of extra calories and way-too-long bubble baths. Well, we like the edge, but we shouldn't stay there for long.).

I found her post as I was looking at my traffic today and noticed a lot of hits from her URL. So I went to the site to see who my new “fan” was…..WHAM! A hit to the gut.

As I was getting Laylee ready for bed tonight (complete with Christmas carols and prayers in Jesus’ name. Gasp!) I had a hard time hiding my tears. Daddy explained that I was crying because someone had written something very mean about me on the internet. When I left the room Laylee exclaimed, “Oh Daddy! I want to write something very very very nice to Mommy.” I guess I still have a couple of fans.

What really makes me sad about this is that Sallie set up these awards as a way to promote the love of Jesus Christ and she did so right during the holiday season. She is a wonderful, caring and deeply religious person who has spent hours putting this together. It makes me sick and sad to think that people are sending her bitter and hostile emails because she didn’t dig deep enough to find out “what I truly am.”

If I gave up the award and passed it on to Amy’s Humble Musings or Jeneric Jeneralities, would you stop harassing Sallie and let us pass the holidays with the true Spirit of the season?

christOn her site, Marla stated, “I wonder how you would react if a Jehovah's Witness won a contest showcasing the blogs of Latter Day Saints. I'm not here to convert Mormons, but it is my duty as a Christian to make people aware of false teachers, especially those who claim the name of Christ but add to his words (the Book of Mormon) and falsify his very essence, thus stripping him of his divinity.”

Well Marla – When the Jehovah’s Witnesses stop by and offer to share a scripture with me about Christ, I invite them in. No one can strip Christ of his divinity.

A note to my well-meaning friends: I don't want anyone else to feel like this. So, please stop the cycle and don't give my "reviewer" a hard time. I don't want to have to delete you when you're just trying to make me feel better but I'll have to if you turn my comments section into a rip-fest.


Blogger blackbird said...

I am so sorry someone has chosen to try to spoil something nice for you.

My first inclination was to blast her - but as a heathen Unitarian I know that I am no match for someone who can twist scripture to fire their fury.

I think you should come over today and we will have some tea and read all your archives and laugh and laugh...
and then? we'll light candles and pray to the moon.

12/08/2005 2:24 AM

Blogger Catez said...

Hi daring young mom,
I just wanted to comment on a couple of things:
It makes me sick and sad to think that people are sending her bitter and hostile emails because she didn’t dig deep enough to find out "what I truly am."

Sallie hasn't said anything about receiving bitter and hostile emails. So let's not make assumptions, ok? Apparently a few people emailed her - but some of these ladies know her. There's nothing to indicate or even suggest they were hostile and bitter to her.

On her site, Marla stated, "I wonder how you would react if a Jehovah's Witness won a contest showcasing the blogs of Latter Day Saints".

That's a good question. I think you ducked it in your post. Sure - sometimes I invite the JWs in and share scriptures. But that's not Marla's question here. I think the problem is that Sallie intended the awards to be for orthodox Christian bloggers. And that's what most of us understood. In the same way, if you ran awards or a contest for Mormon bloggers - and that was your intention - then I think you would be surprised if a JW blog won. We have our differences, and I agree we can talk and relate to each other - which is my intention here (not to beat up I assure you) - but we do organise things for our particular groups at times too. That is ok to do. So I think that particular question is a fair one and makes a good point. Otherwise we wouldn't have anything for our own groups would we? We wouldn't have our respective church services, bible studies, publishing companies... I could make a list. There's nothing wrong with some distinctiveness.

I think that unfortunately Sallie didn't express her intention clearly enough for some and there's been some confusion. She has clarified her intention now. As to what you should do? Well, if I won a Mormon blogs contest by mistake (i.e. if people didn't realise I'm not Mormon) I would have to weigh that up. It's for you to decide.

Ok - I didn't come with a pitchfork (I live in NZ - Narnia Zone - we are into deep magic not pitchforks). I am sorry that you have felt hurt. I can understand that.

12/08/2005 2:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there! Ignore this if you're not interested, but I'm just skipping through BlogExplosion looking for other mommys.

Me and a friend have set up a MSN group for parents to get together and meet others who share things in common with themselves. It's been a bit slow to get off the ground, so I'm looking for new members to join up.

The site is http://groups.msn.com/BoredMomsHideaway .

Take a look- if you're interested please sign up, or pass on the information to anyone else you may know who is interested.

Thanks :)

12/08/2005 6:49 AM

Anonymous Mom said...

Sweetheart, I'm sorry that this whole thing has happened. It hurts my heart. There is a lot of misunderstanding out there about what we believe and we are probably not going to solve that here.

So I offer you the great advice my mother was given (by her friend from the deep south) during a hurtful experience in her life. "You jest don't pay it no mind darlin'. You jest don't pay it no mind." This is also known as "turning the other cheek".

In your heart you know that you worship Jesus Christ and try to live your life by His teachings and that needs to be enough. Please don't let this spoil your Christmas joy.

As to whether or not you should decline the award, I guess it depends. If it is an award for Christian humor, I would accept it graciously. If it was intended for fundamentalist or orthodox Christians only, I would decline on the basis that whoever nominated me was mistaken in assuming that I belonged to that group. You'll prayerfull do the right thing. You always do. I know you better than anyone and I think you are absolutely wonderful.

12/08/2005 7:06 AM

Blogger The Daring One said...

Marla and I spent some time last night emailing and trying to clarify things. She seems like a sincere and reasonable person.

I’m sorry I did not better understand the awards. I promise you that when I heard about the nomination, I thought the awards were for blogs of beauty created by people that worship the Divine Savior, Jesus Christ - all people. I did not think they were meant for a specific group of His followers.

From the bottom of my soul I consider myself a Christian and feel like we are on the same team. Someone nominating me for an award for “funny Christians” seemed to make sense.

If I knew people would feel defiled by my nomination, I would honestly have dropped out.

Several Evangelicals read my blog and know I'm LDS and I assume it was one of them who nominated me. I feel like we share a common and sincere faith in Jesus Christ. I was not trying to “sneak in” or disrupt your club. I thought I was part of it, every step of the awards process, until I came across Marla's post.

About the "dodge," I think I'd laugh and say, "Oops, I didn't specify that this was for only people who share my specific beliefs about Christ. Maybe next year."

I guess I'm just not sure where your line is for Christianity. I have many friends of all faiths and we talk of Christ openly. I have attended Presbyterian Bible study with my good friend and Methodist and Catholic services with others. The list goes on. Which of those other groups would be considered unsuitable?

I just don't know.

I also want to say for my non-Christian readers, I find a lot of beauty and inspiration in several of your blogs as well and I hope to develop some sort of recognition for all people that promote faith, kindness and tolerance in the blogging world.

12/08/2005 7:07 AM

Blogger Karen said...

You know how I feel about this so I need not blather on and on.

You have shown grace and love in your response, exactly how Christ responded to those who attacked Him.

12/08/2005 7:44 AM

Anonymous blestwithsons said...


All I know is you're definitely FUNNY!!!


12/08/2005 7:47 AM

Blogger jessica said...

DYM - May I just say that you have handled all of this with a sense of grace and humility that reflects your deep love of and belief in the Savior, Jesus Christ.

It is never fun to be personally singled out for "undesireable qualities." But to be told, by people who don't know you (and obviously know very little about your faith), that these "undesireable qualities" are your beliefs and your religion is beyond not fun.

I am so impressed with your response to all of this! My heart hurts for you that you have had to run smack up against the ugliness that exists in the world in the form of hatred (and dare I say, misunderstanding) of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

At a time when so many horrible things are happening, you would think that people of faith, any faith, would just want to strengthen each other. I am sorry that this is not always the case. Until that happens, the best you can do is continue to treat them as you would like to be treated.

You make me proud to know you! Continue to be a Christ-like woman of faith (and humor), a mother of two precious children and a loving wife. This is where true happiness and fulfilment can be found. And the next time your longing to hear from a "fan", ask Laylee to write some really, really nice things about you. Chin up, DYM. You're awesome!

12/08/2005 8:15 AM

Blogger Liz said...

I have to say this - I'm not ripping, but if you delete it it's okay. When I first found your blog, I read every post, and it wasn't hard to find that you were a Mormon. I am not a Mormon. That didn't stop me from continuing to read your posts. That didn't cause me to put a disclaimer on my post advertising you. The thought crossed my mind, and then I realized that it was my blog, and an opportunity for me to post what I thought was interesting and fun to read, not an opportunity to (ahem) kiss the rear-ends of those who might read my blog.

Honestly, I did not know about the Beauty Contest, but would have nominated you #1 because I think your blog was beautiful!!

Also - I'm not really one to promote tolerance and "all roads lead to the same path" but you know, I think we all have a lot to learn from one another. I am so impressed with your opportunity to stay home with your children and build a homelife for them. I have delayed having children because we could not afford to do that.

So all that said and off my chest, I think you should just keep writing. Criticism hurts, but it's not the end of the world. A valuable thing I have learned is if you are not part of the problem and not part of the solution, keep your opinion to yourself. I also use that to gauge how important someone else's comments are to me. Kind of like considering the source.

Please remind me of this when someone criticizes my blog and I blog about it in tears!!! I'm sure it will happen someday. Go light your candles and eat many calories. Have a great day!

12/08/2005 8:19 AM

Blogger mom on a wire said...

I think your mom gave great advice and I agree with her.

12/08/2005 8:32 AM

Blogger Stephanie said...

I am so sorry.

That's all I got. I like Mormons. :)

12/08/2005 8:47 AM

Blogger Kathryn said...

Your attitude is an inspiration to me. I agree with lfierge, in reading your posts it was very evident that you are Mormon. While I may not agree with your religious beliefs, I must say that in the real world, I have many friends/co-workers (from every spectrum of organized religion--Mennonite, Amish, pagan,Sikh, mainline denominations, atheist, Catholic, Oneness Pentecostal, etc.), that I don't agree with on religious/political issues. There are such great differents in beliefs and practices even among main line denominations. We agree to disagree, and have some great debates. I have found that I can learn so much from other people and it is not fair to judge. I cannot make decisions for others, and I only answer to God. It is important for all of us to search the scriptures for ourselves. I am an evangelical Christian, and I have strong beliefs and opinions, but hope my love for Christ and others shows thru my blog.
I'm sorry that you are crying--your blog is well written and funny. You are the kind of lady I would like for a next door neighbor.

12/08/2005 9:00 AM

Anonymous Long-time reader, first time poster said...

DYM -As a Mormon from the south (people like to talk about their ancestors who were pioneers x generations back... I consider myself a 2nd generation Alabama Mormon), I'm somewhat used to this. You get thick skin when you hear it day in and day out.

Generally, I have some pity for these people. Most are ignorant of the world around them and even more ignorant of their own beliefs. Marla, it must be said, does not appear to fit into this mold. She is well-educated, and does have some serioius questions about her faith.

Yet she can't believe that there are Christians out there who consider members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be members of a chruch which worships Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, your blog and your beliefs as a Latter-day Saint fit with the requirements of the contest:

"I believe in the Godhead of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as revealed in the Holy Bible. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God and my only means for the forgiveness of my sins and my salvation. My salvation is found in no one but Jesus Christ."

Mormons do believe what's in the Bible - we do not believe in the Nicene Creed or alternate interpretations of the Bible. It would appear that the author of TTL will be tightening restrictions next year and inspecting blogs. Only time will tell if she chooses to exclude certain groups.

DYM, your blog is absolutely hilarious and uplifiting. Both my wife and I love it. I found it by chance through a mutual friend of ours and read it every day for a bit of a smile and some great thoughts about what life will be like when the wife and I get our own Laylee and Magoo.

Thanks for your blog, DYM! You've got lots of fans in Provo that read you every day, and we appreciate your efforts! We also hope your foot feels better ;-)

12/08/2005 9:15 AM

Blogger Kelly said...

You are awesome. By now, you should know that. No one can take that away from you. When it all comes down to it, awards don't really mean a whole lot anyway. The people who like you, REALLY like you.... award or no award!
-Kelly (a partner in crime... in so many ways!)

12/08/2005 9:25 AM

Blogger Sweet Thing said...

Don't worry you still have lots of fans! (As evident by 11 posts trying to cheer you up!)

People are mean sometimes. I hope you are feeling better!

12/08/2005 9:48 AM

Anonymous dittysimmons said...


I've been a stealthy visitor to your blog for a while now, and gotten others secretly hooked as well. I believe "who we really are" is defined by the fruits of our labors. You are hillarious! Your blog makes everyone who visits smile if not laugh out loud. Your loving words about your husband and little family and your devotion to seeing that they're happy and healthy are an inspiration. That's some pretty great fruit.

I can't help thinking that the contention and bitterness and hurt feelings that have come from other people's writings are another kind of "fruit". (just don't partake of it!)

Thanks for making me smile and laugh. Thanks for being DARING, don't back down now.

12/08/2005 10:13 AM

Blogger Heather said...

I love you, man! Ditto to a lot of these comments.

12/08/2005 10:29 AM

Anonymous Lou said...

I just found you through Eullalia- WAY TO GO!!!!!! Great blog- deserved the award I'd say :-)

12/08/2005 11:44 AM

Blogger bon said...

I have never understood the semantics of "I am a Christian." It gripes my very soul that a group of folks who don't follow their own rules of inclusion got the real life version of that domain name. Face it, if a "Christian" is a person that believes in the Godhood and divinity of the Savior Jesus Christ, who worships Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit... if we are talking about someone who is reborn in Christ. Well guess what? That's me and I am Mormon. **put's away soapbox and goes to nurse baby.**

12/08/2005 11:47 AM

Anonymous surcie said...

Okay, I decided to read what Marla wrote even though, Lord knows, I don't need to be reading negative garbage today. Anyway, I find it interesting that her blog won the "best discussion" category. After just a handful comments that opposed her point of view, she shut down the comment thingie! So much for discussion.

12/08/2005 12:06 PM

Blogger Sweet Thing said...

I went and read the post that you were talking about, and let me just say it made me mad! I am very proud of you and the way you are handling this. I don't think I could be as understanding.

12/08/2005 12:42 PM

Blogger Sugarmama said...

My mother always told me to "rise above it." Our moms both offer good advice, no? Your blog is great. Don't listen to anything to the contrary.

12/08/2005 12:59 PM

Blogger bon said...

haha! I just realized that I am so proudly proclaiming my Mormonhood here in yer comments, yet if ya go to my post that's up today...
let's just say I have not always been a follower of Christ let alone a great example of LDSness.

12/08/2005 1:40 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Hi daring young mom,
My suggestion is to email Sallie and ask her if the awards were intended for orthodox Christians. My understanding is that they were. So why not go to her directly? That's an easy way to clear up the confusion.

The issue is not about that we can communicate with people of different beliefs. We can. I link to and visit blogs by people who are not orthodox Christians. But if they ran a contest for their particular group I wouldn't enter, and if I was entered and won by mistake I'd need to clarify that and make a decision.

I think it helps to step back and just look at the issue rather than get into a bit of a war about beliefs. Awards were held for a particular group. There was some confusion as that wasn't clear. So it helps to clarify it and weigh it up.

12/08/2005 1:44 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Thanks for replying. But this is what I mean - let's not put things there that weren't intended:

If I knew people would feel defiled by my nomination, I would honestly have dropped out.

I haven't seen anyone say they felt "defiled". It's about the boundaries around a set of beliefs for a particular group and who the awards were intended for. You know - if the shoe was on the other foot and I won a Mormon contest and some Mormons said well she has a good blog but she's not a Mormon - I'd understand.

Several Evangelicals read my blog and know I'm LDS and I assume it was one of them who nominated me.

Wel we don't know who nominated you. I don't think knowing who nominated you is an issue. I think a mistake was made but we don't need to know who nominated you. It happened. The thing is how can it best be resolved?

I feel like we share a common and sincere faith in Jesus Christ. I was not trying to “sneak in” or disrupt your club. I thought I was part of it, every step of the awards process, until I came across Marla's post.

Daring One - no-one has said you were trying to sneak in and disrupt. I'm open to talking but you are putting some things on me here that don't fit. I think I've been clear that as I see it a mistake occurred - that what was intended was not clear enough. Sallie has clarified it, and I do suggest emailing her.

I guess I'm just not sure where your line is for Christianity.

This isn't about where my "line is for Christianity". See that is making it about me. Yet if you read my comments all I have said to you is that a mistake was made, Sallie has clarifed her intent, and you decide what to do. I've suggested emailing her and asking her if she intended the awards for orthodox Christians. It's not about where my line is - it's about who the awards were intended for and you weighing that up.

I have many friends of all faiths and we talk of Christ openly. I have attended Presbyterian Bible study with my good friend and Methodist and Catholic services with others. The list goes on. Which of those other groups would be considered unsuitable?

Ask Sallie which groups would be unsutiable - she is running the awards and the Carnival. I didn't come here to beat you up but to try help clarify things and defuse them if possible. So please don't make me the issue here.

I do understand that it's hurtful. I think your Mom gave some good advice and you can weigh it up and get further clarification from the awards co-ordinator if you want to.

I'm not into arguing beliefs - that isn't the issue and I think arguing beliefs just causes more hurt.

God bless.

12/08/2005 2:22 PM

Blogger The Daring One said...

I'm sorry if I attacked you with those words. That's the last thing I wanted to do. I did reply to your email address earlier but I guess you didn't get it. I wanted you to know that I did contact Sallie when this whole contraversy came to light and volunteered to give up the Award. I want to do what will heal people's hearts and make you all happy. Truly.

"If I knew people would feel defiled by my nomination, I would honestly have dropped out."

I guess I should have used "tainted" rather than "defiled" here. That's the statement that was actually made about my blog being among the award winners.

I am a Christian and I thought that was the only criteria in the nomination. Now that I realize a specific type of Christianity was meant, I have offered to pass the award to the next appropriate person.

"I feel like we share a common and sincere faith in Jesus Christ. I was not trying to “sneak in” or disrupt your club. I thought I was part of it, every step of the awards process, until I came across Marla's post."

I have recieved personal emails suggesting that I tried to sneak into the awards in order to convert the Evangelical world to Mormonism. This is untrue and this is what I was addressing here.

Again, I have emailed Sallie a couple of times and she has not been able to respond yet. I think this is overwhelming for her and I'm giving her space to respond when and if she feels ready.

I was honestly not trying to make you the issue or to argue beliefs.

No good comes from that. I hope we can all put this behind us.

12/08/2005 2:38 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Hi - I did get you email. Thankyou for doing that. I just sent you a reply. re: this:

I have recieved personal emails suggesting that I tried to sneak into the awards in order to convert the Evangelical world to Mormonism. This is untrue and this is what I was addressing here.

I am very sorry that people have done that. It is quite clear that you were not trying to use the awards in that way. Some people owe you an apology - and I hope they have the grace to do that and will put it right.

I'm glad you've emailed Sallie. It will work out. I expect I'll be dropping in to your blog more now - I am an irregular reader of most blogs but I do pop in and out. I love a good sense of humour.

Well - my chocolate muffins are waiting... they were on special at the supermarket and I am inexplicably delighted.

12/08/2005 3:11 PM

Blogger Stephanie said...

Drama, drama, drama.

I hope you take it with a grain of salt, K. Things always look better in the morning.

And if anyone reads this, come on people, it's just a blog! It's not that big of a deal. The awards, though I am sure the lady who started them is lovely, are seriously insignificant.

Let the daring one be.

12/08/2005 5:04 PM

Anonymous molly from choosing home said...

Since I have some background with LDS stuff, I wanted to comment.

FIRST of all, I think you ARE hilarious. That much is patently true.

SECOND, was the contest specifically for Christians???? (I don't know--just asking).

THIRD, let's not pretend that there isn't a lot of differences between LDS and orthodox Christianity. There are HUGE differences. YOu may want to say you are a "Christian" too, but... Let's just be honest and admit that basic Christian teachings and LDS teachings are NOT in even the same ballpark.

Basic Christian gospel: I was not good enough, but thanks to the work of Christ on the cross, He now lives in me and through me! God has put me in Him and has (and is continually) making me a "new creature in Christ." It's all about Jesus.

Basic LDS Gospel: "As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man can become."

Now THAT is a far cry from the gospel preached by the New Testament believer!

Basic LDS teaching shares that Jesus made it possible for me, but now I've got to work hard to get to the top level of heaven on my own. The LDS church teaches that Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers in heaven (as were all of us)...that we can become gods and rule our own planets... ETC... (See, told ya the LDS church and I have some history--I've read SO many LDS church teachings that it's not even funny! lol)...

THis is NOT what is taught in most Christian churches. LDS and Christian churches may use a lot of the same terminology, but what they MEAN by it is radically different.

This is not to be mean--just honest. I haven't even read Marla's post yet. And I've already freely admitted to enjoying your blog, thanks to the BOB awards that let me get to know you. :)

But let's not pretend that there aren't worlds of differences between our faiths. You have EVERY right to be LDS. But suggesting that the differences are minimal ain't cool.

12/08/2005 5:08 PM

Blogger Karen said...

Dear BOB Zealots,
Please move on to the Weblog Awards and leave Kathryn the DYM alone. We all get the point. You don't think she should have won and you want her to relinquish her award. If you can put your agenda aside and stop for air you might read between the lines (or in the actual lines for that matter) that this whole fiasco has hurt her and shaken her to the very core.

I will not argue theology or whether or not a Mormon can be a Christian with you. That subject has been thoroughly hashed. What is left after the shark feed is a very nice unwitting person who got dragged into the middle and is now left in pieces having had her faith and integrity publicly flogged.

I can see that you've tried to be nice in your website comments on her blog but it seems to me that your debate could be carried on in another arena where you fight it to your heart's content without making an example of someone.

Leave the girl alone.

12/08/2005 5:17 PM

Anonymous molly again said...

Hey, I'm personally not saying anything about giving the award back. ...Nor am I feeling like waving any pitchforks. And I just got back from reading Marla's post and can see that it may have come across painful to read (if I was reading it about myself). I bet she didn't mean it that way, but perhaps she did. (who knows???)

All I was trying to say a comment or two ago is that there were lots of comments here regarding how we are all "Christians." And I was just attempting to point out that there is a vast difference between the faiths... VAST. DIFFERENCE. And that it really doesn't behoove us to pretend otherwise. It makes us look kind of dumb when we try.

That, and that this blog IS hilariously funny, and even in DYM's angst, she couldn't help but be hilarious in how she shared. :o) I'm impressed.

12/08/2005 5:25 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, Molly, let's be honest with ourselves:

You want to be a jerk.

There, I said it.

You want to inject yourself into this battle. You want to make sure that your point of view is heard by all - Mormons aren't Christians! Or, at least, not like most Christians... or... hmmm... their teachings are a little different, or... hmmm... you really don't know, do you? For all your vast knowledge of LDS beliefs, you've missed many of the basics.

I am a Mormon. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior and that, without his atonement, it would be impossible for me to be clean of my sins. I believe in James 2:20 - "and wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" I believe I will reap what I sow (Galatians 6:7), and that God will not be mocked.

I belive Christ when he said "ye are gods" (John 10:34).

I believe in Christ. There is nothing you can say to me that would make me falter or waver in that belief. You profess to believe in Christ also, which I will accept.

DYM will probably delete this post and yours - and she probably should. But I hope you have the time to give it a read. I hope she forgives me for injecting some testosterone into this battle.

12/08/2005 5:42 PM

Blogger jenny said...

girl, I've learned more about religion here in these comments than in TEN years of CCD.

Sorry it's all gotten kind of messy for you. I'd suggest a drink, but I hear you're a Mormon ;)

12/08/2005 5:55 PM

Blogger The Daring One said...

Thanks for the praise of my blog. I really appreciate that.

I think we're getting into semantics here. I do not pretend to follow the Nicene Creed and I don't claim that the LDS church does not have major differences with OTHER Christian churches.

I am defining Christianity as being Christ-like and believing in Him as a divine Savior and Redeemer.

Christian -
1. A person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.


2. a decent, repsectable person.

Check (I hope).

3. Having the qualities demonstrated and taught by Jesus Christ, as love, kindness, humility, etc.

I'm sure working on it.

4. Of or representing Christians or Christianity.

5. Humane, decent, etc.

I will be declining the award, now that I know the intent of the BoBs. Thanks again anyone who voted for me. I will go back to my silly ways and move on.

12/08/2005 5:58 PM

Blogger Elena said...

The opening of the contest said:

"The focus of these awards is honoring the female bloggers who bring beauty to the world of blogdom."

Heck I even considered nominating

The Modern Muslima!

With that in mind I do not think you did anythng wrong. I think you won your award fair and square AND I think you're so hilariously funny I'm adding you to my blog roll.

12/08/2005 5:58 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Karen, I'm not sure who you are replying to - and it would help if you specified it. But daring young mom has not indicated to me that I'm not welcome here, and we have exchanged emails. So I'll leave it to her to speak for herself. I've been clear what I was trying to do and how I saw the issue. She's been clear with me. For my part I'd ike to keep it that way and come back and visit this blog again.

12/08/2005 7:24 PM

Blogger Karen said...

I said nothing about people not being welcome here. You're right, that is not my call. I merely suggested that it might be time to put the subject to rest or take the argument elsewhere if you or others don't feel that it has been satisfied.

12/08/2005 7:35 PM

Blogger Moonface said...

sending hugs your way...

12/08/2005 7:40 PM

Blogger Catez said...

I merely suggested that it might be time to put the subject to rest or take the argument elsewhere if you or others don't feel that it has been satisfied.

1. I had put it to rest and I was satisfied. Kathryn and I had a good discussion. If she didn't like anything I said she was free to say so. She hasn't said so.

2. This is her blog, not yours. At any time she could have asked me not to comment. That's not your call. Re-read my comments - ther is nothing "BOB zealot" in them.

3. If you are responding to Molly then respond to her - don't drag me in and try to paint me with motives you are assuming. There have been too many assumptions.

Enough. I came here wanting to help clarify and defuse. I have felt for you because I know you found this hurtful - and I understand that. But I'm not going to be a punchbag for your commenters. I thought that despite this being a difficult issue we had communicated well and I was looking forward to visiting and reading your future posts. I have not attacked you or been hurtful to you. Neither should I be mistreated. I liked where we were at - and I'd like to stay in peace.

12/08/2005 8:02 PM

Blogger RANDI said...

I am not quite sure what to say in regards to all this except that i will be bookmarking your blog so I can start enjoying your humorous writing! I am seriously sad that all this has come about!

(((HUGS))) to you!

12/08/2005 9:10 PM

Anonymous blestwithsons said...

Okay DYM. I have waited all day. Put up your seven sevens post!!!

I know I am an older woman to ya - so obey me forthwith lest I come after ye with a mocha! (hee hee!)

12/08/2005 9:15 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Hi Kathryn,
Since my last email didn't reach you - just letting you know I got your most recent email. Thankyou for agreeing that things are fine between us. I appreciate that.

12/09/2005 1:13 AM

Blogger Catez said...

I think I'd add that while I don't agree with some of your response to Molly, I do agree that she arrived in a conversation where we had got past debating beliefs and were trying to resolve an issue that was confused.
We'd also talked about the intent of the awards and I'd noted that Sallie had now made her intention clear. I don't know why Molly asked if the awards were for Christians - maybe she didn't know. But most of us did - the awards arose after discussion about some orthodox Christian mens blogs. And when Sallie referred to "the beauty of our Lord" in her first post on BOB and "the beauty of the Lord Jesus" in her next post we understood that as being in an orthodox context - for orthodox Christian bloggers. As I've already said - she wasn't clear enough about her intentions, which she has admitted on her blog. And she has since clarified her intentions.

So lots of learning curves going on with this. I hope we can move on - I see Kathryn has another post up which looks enjoyable.

12/09/2005 1:48 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dearly Beloved Bloggers and Bloggees,

It isn't always easy to follow Jesus of Nazareth. Sometimes we're in the kitchen clanging pots and pans, complaining about a sister who isn't helping us with our chores but chooses to sit at His feet and revel in His love. Sometimes we become Pharisees in our preoccupation with stuff that makes no difference in how well we live or how much we love, but serves only to condemn or belittle others.

How oft He would gather us as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wing, but we will not.

Who is a peaceable follower of Christ? We may judge by their peaceable walk with the children of men, for if their works be good, then they are good also. God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good. Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil.

That which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve Him, is inspired of God.

Wherefore, take heed that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

Search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

Pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with the pure love of Christ, which he hath bestowed on all who are true followers of His Son, Jesus Christ.

I commend to you Daring Young Mom, a peaceable and humble follower of Christ.

12/09/2005 5:08 AM

Blogger Stephanie said...


12/09/2005 8:30 AM

Anonymous Dave said...

Alison & I have just been reading some of what's going on here. Back when the internet was in it's toddler stage (it now seems to be in turbulent adolescence) I was attracted to forums that were supposedly designed as a place where LDS people could meet and discuss various things having to do with life, Life, and LIFE! In every case, someone would intrude with a sense of mission about setting everyone else straight. And I find that attitude intolerable, whether the writer is zealously Mormon or Anti-Mormon.
The only site I've been able to find that seems to be able to foster and control a friendly, earnest, and respectful atmosphere of open discussion on its site is: www.meridianmagazine.com
Surely, they must get hate mail; obviously, they just zap it.
Now that all you mom-bloggers have created beauty-full webpages of sweet love and laughter, the inevitable has happened.
The eternal combat goes on between Light and Darkness. Although you've been wounded in the battle, "That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger."
I really believe all this brouhaha will attract and strengthen your readership.
It's not as important to get the award as to deserve the award. I'm no connoisseur of blogdom, but it's quite apparent that your friends have rallied to your side (site?), and those who can't stand to think that they might fall under your evil influence are going to take their own influence elsewhere, once they cease to get any further satisfaction from seeing their postings published.
Just look in the mirror, smile broadly, and repeat Stuart Smalley's daily affirmation: "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!"
In your case, it's absolutely true.

12/09/2005 9:52 AM

Anonymous Holly said...

Hey DYM...it is really just unfortunate that this happened. Any debate between Mormon and Christian should have taken place in the "arena of ideas," or in the realm of the theoretical. It shouldn't have included you personally. Really, all that I see that this has created is a bad taste in the mouths of all who read it. For that, I am so sorry. I am absolutely certain this was not the intention of the creator of the awards. I doubt that any of us who are Christians would be so confrontive face to face, or in real life. It's just easier to type (instead of speak) against a belief or idea, and forget that there is a very real person behind the blog.

Although I AM unabashedly an evangelical Christian, and would defend my faith until my death...I would never choose to pick this fight nor to wound you on purpose.

Blessings - I'm sure your blog will do well now. That's the way things work!

12/09/2005 10:37 AM

Blogger Elena said...

I really believe all this brouhaha will attract and strengthen your readership.

I do to. I know I added you to my blog roll! : )

12/09/2005 10:55 AM

Blogger Catez said...

and those who can't stand to think that they might fall under your evil influence are going to take their own influence elsewhere, once they cease to get any further satisfaction from seeing their postings published.

I think this is getting way out of proportion. I do notice these generalisations that keep happening in comments. It really helps to just reply to the peron - talk to them. It's not about good vs. evil people - it's about communicating with each other. Hey, you know, if you disagree with some-one's posting then you can politely tell them - talk about it. This generalising is how the whole thing degenerates into misunderstanding and hurt.

Let's get things into perspective. Kathryn won an award. She felt good about it. Out of the blue some-one put up a blog post and she was hurt. I understand that. It would have been a shock and unexpected.

Instead of degenerating into a war between two belief systems the opportunity is there to say - let's look at the where the confusion stems from and how this can be resolved. In short - how can we unravel this, and how can we be at peace. To her credit, Kathryn did that - and it is hard to be objective when you feel very hurt.

I hope those who sent Kathryn emails (and I'm well aware they may read this) accusing her of trying to use the awards to evangelise for Mormonism apologise.

Dave we've been through a process here - I think one person came in and made it about beliefs but other than that it's been overall a good conversation. There do not have to be "sides" - if you really read what has been said you'll see that there have been, on the whole, efforts to resolve and make peace. Making peace is not easy. It does sometimes mean unravelling our own human responses, clarifying the issues, and keeping away for the more emotionally intense but less relevant arguments.

There is no need for a war mentality. Work it out, talk, and resolve.

I do think that this was not the time or place to debate Kathryn on her relgious beliefs. It's her blog and she did not initiate a conflict over belief systems.

Life aint easy - but I see no reason for generalising - let's get things into perspective and keep it honest. If some-one isn't responsible for the offence then it isn't right to land it on them - and that goes for everyone without partiality. I'm not into the groupthink thing where you line up on a side and can't just talk to some-one.

There's been a blog post by one person, and some emails from some people - and a couple of comments debating beliefs from some-one on this post - true. But a lot of clarity, talking things through and hey - at least one new reader!

Let's get things into perspective.

12/09/2005 2:18 PM

Anonymous Judi said...

Finally, I get it!

You have been like an angel in my life because you have been trying to convert me, not because you are an incredible Christian woman! Well, thanks to some other bloggers the game is up! You are busted, Missy.

Your master plan must have started the day I moved to Seattle. Remember you went out of your way to introduce yourself to me, you invited this new neighbor and total stranger to dinner in your home. Lastly, you left towels, toilet paper, soap and other essentials on my doorstep that afternoon because my belongings had not yet arrived. Ah, if only I would have known then what I know now!

You continued your evil ways when you invited me places, delivered homemade baked goods for no reason and visited me almost every afternoon when I returned home from work.

Most recently, you fell ill the day I returned home from the hospital with our new baby. Since you promised to bring us dinner and could not you called someone from your church to make and deliver dinner. They must have known what you were up to because a total stranger brought us dinner, snacks and a gift for the baby.

Wait until I tell the girls from Bible study! You must be trying to convert them too...I can't believe we studied scripture with you, let alone actually learned from your vast knowledge of the Bible and Christianity!

Okay, enough sarcasm. From one Christian woman to another...you rock DYM! Your actions demonstrate your Christian faith on a daily basis. You are awesome!

12/09/2005 4:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this Catez's blog or DYMs?

12/09/2005 6:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was wondering the same thing.

12/09/2005 9:22 PM

Blogger Catez said...

Anonymous (x2),
Come on now - I think it's obvious I was just wanting to help. I've replied specifically to people. I'm happy to leave it as I think it is getting resolved.
You can look at what I've said or you can make inferences. Me - I'm for keeping it perspective.

12/10/2005 12:02 AM

Blogger The Daring One said...

Wow, this post has turned into quite the discussion forum. Thanks to everyone for your comments and tons of support.

BTW - catez and I have been in email contact and I am fine with her commenting as much as she likes. She also left a very nice and thoughtful comment on another site that has mentioned me recently and I greatly appreciated it.

12/10/2005 4:43 PM

Anonymous Jenna said...


It never ceases to amaze me how something so silly can be blown so out of proportion.

Regardless of the differences of doctrine that is preached between the LDS and various denominations of Christianity, all words should be spoken in love. I am sorry that you have been wounded by people over something that you didn't even have control over.

Have a blessed day. :o )

12/10/2005 11:01 PM

Blogger Regina Clare Jane said...

DYM- I think you are wonderful and very gracious! I got a nice visit from DYD and I was honored to have him visit me! I just want to wish you all the best and please visit me whenever you get a chance! I like everybody on my blog! My best friend Ayekah and I only wish you the happiest of holidays and a peaceful rest of the year.

12/11/2005 5:33 PM

Blogger Kenji JB said...

I dont understand whats going on as i read the comments about award and stuffs but anyway, Ma'am kathryn, thanks for blogs. me and my fiancee are now starting to read your blogs and asking others in my circle of friends too to read them and visit your site. I hope it will be okay for you if i make a link of your site to my website at http://jbsolis.tripod.com.

I am a Filipino by the way working for over a year hear in the Middle East and my fiancee and siblings are reading your post in the Philippines, that's in Southeast Asia. Who cares about the awards they will give to you, your readers and fans are now in international arena, places and people you probably never been, never met, or never know. Thanks to you for touching our lives with humor and sense. Hope you can sign in my guestbook if you have time to visit my site. I saved all your site files and plan to send it to my friends who dont have access to the net daily!

Kenji Jb

12/13/2005 1:21 AM

Blogger SkiTheStars said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/17/2005 11:52 PM

Blogger The Daring One said...

I received a comment this morning from a man who introduced himself as Marla's father.

He had kind and encouraging things to say to me about LDS people he has known in the past, although he does not share my religion. I would like to thank him for his kind words and detailed comment.

I removed the comment because it seemed too personal for this public forum, but I appreciate the time he took to respond to this post. It has been a wild ride.

12/18/2005 10:46 AM

Blogger The Daring One said...

Douglas posted this earlier but I didn't feel comfortable with some of the content so I have edited out certain personal information.


I guess it's time I surfaced. Should you happen to look up Marla's birth certificate, you'll discover that her father is Douglas Keachie.

Who he ?????

He's me.

and a bunch of others

Anyway, my dad was Catholic, my mom was Protestant, I grew up in Berkeley where my dad taught engineering. I was born 1/2 deaf and when they started attending church at the local Unitarian site in a Maybeck where Zellerbach Hall is now, I learned virtually nothing in Sunday school.

Then at age six my Nana was killed in a flaming car wreck. I wasn't too happy about this God character, and at age 13, reading lots of Robert Heinlein and Asimov and others, I became, of my own volition, after considering everything, a hopeful agnostic. I've stayed that way ever since.

[The next section talks about personal family struggles and I have left that out.]

I have a great deal of respect for the Mormon Church, other than some of the male domination, the slaughter(?) of early non Mormon pioneers, just passing through to the west coast, and general firm hierarchal structure, much like other churches.

I was very well treated by a Mormon family who's frozen field I crossed one winter, after my skis unexpectly fell out of the boxcar I'd hitched a ride in, back when I was 19. My girl friend in 6th grade (Kirma Lee Kenner, where are you?) was the daughter of the Mormon Church leader in Berkeley.

Anyway, I consider myself every bit as much of a Christian as [my ex-wife] ever was a Jew, and I consider that "Godly enough."

[deleted section about how he and Marla are no longer in contact]

We only get 36,500 days here if we last till 100. When all the molecules of the body go there separate ways, I see only three possibilities: worse, the same, or better. Two out of three is not bad.

What sort of songbirds fly south of the border for winter ?

Tequila Mockingbirds !

What happened to Big Foot when he ran into a rotary snowplow ?

Sasquachamole !

Marla's dad has a sense of humor too. These are both my originals.

12/20/2005 12:47 PM


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